Wednesday, March 04, 2009
Jokinen, Bertuzzi reunited
From Jay Onrait's Deadline Blog:
(All stats for 2008/09)
So that's the glass-half-empty look at this.
Matthew Barnaby: "... I talked to players in the Western Conference (about the Jokinen deal) and they said 'Great'... 'He's a cancer'" Wow.
(All stats for 2008/09)
- EVPts/60: Lombardi - 2.36, Jokinen - 1.72
- PK GA/60: Lombardi - 2.91 (4th Best in NHL), Jokinen -N/A
- EV+/-: Lombardi +11, Jokinen -6
- Shots +/-: Lombardi +52, Jokinen -53
- Corsi #: Lombardi +107 (+9.6 per 60), Jokinen -94 (-7.4 per 60)
- FO%: Lombardi 53.4% (53.0% at EV), Jokinen 42.2% (42.1% at EV)
- Cap Hit: Lombardi $1.83M/yr thru 2009/10, Jokinen $5.25M/yr thru 2009/10
So that's the glass-half-empty look at this.
# posted by Matt @ 11:59 am 
Comments:
Think Keenan might be back up to his old tricks, acquiring old favourites? What are Brian Noonan and Stephane Matteau up to these days?
i also don't like this trade but i will give jokinen the statistical benefit of the doubt: he was playing on a very mediocre team this year.
Doesn't this trade read like Sutter is thinking "our last chance"? At least with the current core?
Or is it that the Langkow injury is worse than initially reported?
These guys are reporting that this trade has Calgary over the cap limit (although there's salary going the other way, so I don't get it):
http://nhlscap.com/teamnumbers.htm
While losing Lombardi is going to hurt on the penalty kill, I think Boyd is almost ready to step in there (well, he better be now). And as has already been said, you really have to look at the players around him over the course of the career. Its hard to get properly motivated when you are always surrounded by crap...
Although I'm thinking Phoenix is looking like it might be a sleeper for the playoffs next year...
Word verification: finest
Sitting at 45.5 million going into next season will make for an interesting off-season. Unless the plan is to make Jokinen a rental and try to deal him at the draft. Maybe get the 1st rounder back.
Matt, come on. Jokinen is a much better player than Lombardi, or it's my lying eyes again.
Well I did say that this is the "glass half empty" perspective.
But at the same time, all the stuff about the big body etc. doesn't matter -- we're playing hockey here, not moving furniture, and Lombardi has gotten progressively better at it.
And there is absolutely no question that, on a value-for-dollar basis, Lombo is the better option.
I'll try to get to the Glass Half Full look at some point here.
Comparing numbers as the be all and end all of an assessment is rather ridiculous. Jokinen played on a horrible team severely lacking in talent, of course his numbers are lower. Phoenix played way above thier heads for a stretch, but that's a bottom feeder team.
Lombardi has positive attributes, but he's never gone beyond a third line center and a good penalty killer. This trade gives Calgary a legitimate number one center who is the kind of big body player that matters in a playoff series.
I'll try to get to the Glass Half Full look at some point here.
I'll give it for you Matt: Jokinen's got deficiencies as a player, but once Langkow comes back and they can roll out Bourque-Langkow-Iginla to take on the toughs will Cammalleri-Jokinen-Bertuzzi kill the softs....well, it makes the Flames dangerous.
That being said, this is an admission by Sutter that it's "now or never". Cammalleri is gone this summer, Jokinen's got one year left....the Flames aren't going to have this good a shot for awhile. So they probably want to make the most of it.
Cammalleri-Jokinen-Bertuzzi
Wow. That might be the dog-fknist trio ever to lace up skates on one line.
Somebody will try to Corsi out the combined career triple-digit minuses of this troika, but there's no way anyone can make the case that there's a "defensively responsible" player on that line.
I think Art raises a good point hidden in his statement, actually. Ain't no chance in hell that a Sutter-Keenan team is going that firewagon. A Bertuzzi-Jokinen-Dyslexic Squid line would make Marc-Andre Bergeron look like 2004-vintage Steve Staios in terms of being high-event.
I say that Keenan spreads it around, puts Jokinen with Iginla, and drops Langkow down to babysit the other two.
Haven't Langkow and Bourque and Iginla and Cammalleri shown chemistry this year?
Maybe it's this that the Flames will go with:
Cammalleri-Jokinen-Iginla
Bourque-Langkow-Bertuzzi
If he's so inclined, move someone else into that 2RW position if Bert's too much of a liability (even though Iginla is historically a tough minute outscorer, I think whichever line Langkow is centering, in theory, is the one taking on the other teams heavies).
I have to assume the hope here is that Keenan gets Jokinen back to being a PPG player, because otherwise, this reeeeeally isn't going to look good, long term.* I count six players making over $4M signed through next year.
Also, is it ironic that the Oilers fans are defending this move, and that the Flames fans are decrying it? (Damn you, Alanis Morrisette!)
* - With the usual caveat, "unless they win the Stanley Cup." Gack.
Actually, Im almost willing to bet that Conroy gets dropped to the third line and he starts taking on the heavy hitters...
But who really knows.
The glass half empty side should include Jokinen as teammate because the stories coming out of Phoenix aren't very inspiring. Cancer seems to be the right word.
Matt, are you saying that if Lombardi had Jokie's ice time he is capable of scoring 35 goals in this league?
The idea that dollar for dollar Lombardi is a better player is technically true.
But if we staffed an entire team with $2 million dollar lombardis we'd be missing a LOT of net (but with great speed).
Lombardi is no where near the player Jokinen is, especially if you compare their careers. Olli was a solid 90 point guy until he got lost in the desert. He is now playing for a coach that helped him reach his potential and he is not a rental.
Flames fans, I think you:
1) finally found that center for Igyy
2) probably booked a date in the conference if not Stanley Cup finals.
This is coming from a Hawks fan too!
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Think Keenan might be back up to his old tricks, acquiring old favourites? What are Brian Noonan and Stephane Matteau up to these days?
i also don't like this trade but i will give jokinen the statistical benefit of the doubt: he was playing on a very mediocre team this year.
Doesn't this trade read like Sutter is thinking "our last chance"? At least with the current core?
Or is it that the Langkow injury is worse than initially reported?
These guys are reporting that this trade has Calgary over the cap limit (although there's salary going the other way, so I don't get it):
http://nhlscap.com/teamnumbers.htm
While losing Lombardi is going to hurt on the penalty kill, I think Boyd is almost ready to step in there (well, he better be now). And as has already been said, you really have to look at the players around him over the course of the career. Its hard to get properly motivated when you are always surrounded by crap...
Although I'm thinking Phoenix is looking like it might be a sleeper for the playoffs next year...
Word verification: finest
Sitting at 45.5 million going into next season will make for an interesting off-season. Unless the plan is to make Jokinen a rental and try to deal him at the draft. Maybe get the 1st rounder back.
Matt, come on. Jokinen is a much better player than Lombardi, or it's my lying eyes again.
# posted by 
: March 04, 2009 3:56 pm
: March 04, 2009 3:56 pm Well I did say that this is the "glass half empty" perspective.
But at the same time, all the stuff about the big body etc. doesn't matter -- we're playing hockey here, not moving furniture, and Lombardi has gotten progressively better at it.
And there is absolutely no question that, on a value-for-dollar basis, Lombo is the better option.
I'll try to get to the Glass Half Full look at some point here.
Comparing numbers as the be all and end all of an assessment is rather ridiculous. Jokinen played on a horrible team severely lacking in talent, of course his numbers are lower. Phoenix played way above thier heads for a stretch, but that's a bottom feeder team.
Lombardi has positive attributes, but he's never gone beyond a third line center and a good penalty killer. This trade gives Calgary a legitimate number one center who is the kind of big body player that matters in a playoff series.
# posted by : March 04, 2009 4:40 pm
: March 04, 2009 4:40 pm I'll try to get to the Glass Half Full look at some point here.
I'll give it for you Matt: Jokinen's got deficiencies as a player, but once Langkow comes back and they can roll out Bourque-Langkow-Iginla to take on the toughs will Cammalleri-Jokinen-Bertuzzi kill the softs....well, it makes the Flames dangerous.
That being said, this is an admission by Sutter that it's "now or never". Cammalleri is gone this summer, Jokinen's got one year left....the Flames aren't going to have this good a shot for awhile. So they probably want to make the most of it.
Cammalleri-Jokinen-Bertuzzi
Wow. That might be the dog-fknist trio ever to lace up skates on one line.
Somebody will try to Corsi out the combined career triple-digit minuses of this troika, but there's no way anyone can make the case that there's a "defensively responsible" player on that line.
I think Art raises a good point hidden in his statement, actually. Ain't no chance in hell that a Sutter-Keenan team is going that firewagon. A Bertuzzi-Jokinen-Dyslexic Squid line would make Marc-Andre Bergeron look like 2004-vintage Steve Staios in terms of being high-event.
I say that Keenan spreads it around, puts Jokinen with Iginla, and drops Langkow down to babysit the other two.
Haven't Langkow and Bourque and Iginla and Cammalleri shown chemistry this year?
Maybe it's this that the Flames will go with:
Cammalleri-Jokinen-Iginla
Bourque-Langkow-Bertuzzi
If he's so inclined, move someone else into that 2RW position if Bert's too much of a liability (even though Iginla is historically a tough minute outscorer, I think whichever line Langkow is centering, in theory, is the one taking on the other teams heavies).
I have to assume the hope here is that Keenan gets Jokinen back to being a PPG player, because otherwise, this reeeeeally isn't going to look good, long term.* I count six players making over $4M signed through next year.
Also, is it ironic that the Oilers fans are defending this move, and that the Flames fans are decrying it? (Damn you, Alanis Morrisette!)
* - With the usual caveat, "unless they win the Stanley Cup." Gack.
Actually, Im almost willing to bet that Conroy gets dropped to the third line and he starts taking on the heavy hitters...
But who really knows.
The glass half empty side should include Jokinen as teammate because the stories coming out of Phoenix aren't very inspiring. Cancer seems to be the right word.
Matt, are you saying that if Lombardi had Jokie's ice time he is capable of scoring 35 goals in this league?
The idea that dollar for dollar Lombardi is a better player is technically true.
But if we staffed an entire team with $2 million dollar lombardis we'd be missing a LOT of net (but with great speed).
# posted by : March 05, 2009 9:21 am
: March 05, 2009 9:21 am Lombardi is no where near the player Jokinen is, especially if you compare their careers. Olli was a solid 90 point guy until he got lost in the desert. He is now playing for a coach that helped him reach his potential and he is not a rental.
Flames fans, I think you:
1) finally found that center for Igyy
2) probably booked a date in the conference if not Stanley Cup finals.
This is coming from a Hawks fan too!
# posted by : March 05, 2009 9:35 am
: March 05, 2009 9:35 am Post a Comment
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