That's a killer piece fromt he post.

Saying that, I need to shower.
 

Google "Avenue of Champions Edmonton".

See the green arrow?

Clockwise, starting with the blue roof at 11 o'clock:

Liquor store (used to be a pizza place, I think),

66th street (road that used run past, ironically, Pocklington's Gainers plant),

Empty gravel parking lot (as it has been for my entire four decades on the planet) next door to a restaurant that in the 70s was called the Cave, which was covered in styrofoam boulders and was the centre of organized crime in the 'hood back in the day,

118th avenue, which to the West gets you to the broken-down, rat-infested fire-trap these days called Rexall Somethinerother; to the east the ghetto, then Saskatchewan,

TD Bank (a training branch that can't keep staff past their probationary period) a drugstore, a barber (a good one, too) and a hairstylist,

66th street again,

An abandoned Safeway store that the union-busting, Oakland-based parent company or its Canadian affiliate refuses to allow another retailer to move into; complimentary used condoms and syringes available around back,

7-11 with gas bar; sat empty and then dug up for a year or two while they hauled out the contaminated soil from the old Domo on that spot,

118th avenue again,

To the left of the liquor store is a used car lot that was a poor excuse for money laundering in its day and still is. Next door to that a library. Across the street from that it used to be a plumbing supply store where in 40 years I never saw anybody patronize (but I'm sure it's a "legitimate business", and next to that the former 7-11, now an independent convenient store, replete with cabbies, hookers and drug dealers.

But yah, other than that, tearing down half an established neighbourhood, driving a pseudo-highway through it that came from nowhere and ended at a dead end at another hog-rendering plant, in the name of providing traffic-flow for Wild Bill Hunter's WHA Oilers, certainly revitalized the area.

I see no reason why a new SuperMegaloDome wouldn't do the same for downtown.
 

When it comes to city planning Edmonton has been so wrong for so long that if the average Edmontonian's gut feeling is against a downtown arena then it is unquestionably the right thing to do and the city should proceed as fast as possible with as little public input as possible. The last thing Edmonton needs is more indecisiveness and dithering.

There is real momentum behind downtown revitalization. Look, downtown arenas are not a new concept (by a long shot) and there are plenty of examples of downtown arenas that have become integral to their city's downtown core. There are also plenty of examples that show that building Northlands-style exhibition grounds in the arm-pit of a city does little to revitalize an area of the city that no one cares about. It's time to start doing what other cities do.

I, too, feel that the Coliseum lore is a great asset to the Oilers, but you can only live the past for so long and it's a shame they built it where they did, because Northlands has no where to go but down. It's also embarrassing that tourists who want to see the Gretzky statue have to travel to that part of the city. Isn't it time we started building infrastructure around the parts of the city we want to show off? Only in Edmonton is this a foreign concept.
 

I hope your link to Kerry Diotte's article from April 1st (April Fool's Day) was also meant in jest.
 

The last thing Edmonton needs is more indecisiveness and dithering.

Quick, let's spend over half a billion on something that has been proven over and over again to have no net economic benefit to a city!

Thinking like this is what made the metal baseball bat happen on 97th Ave...

It would also be nice to have a cost benefit analysis that goes beyond "Yeah, but the area around Rexall Place is a dump" as it doesn't actually support the idea that arenas raise the value of surrounding properties. Sadly, the Feasibility Committee's report is pretty much on par with this kind of logic.

Why downtown? IT HAS TO BE DOWNTOWN, is the new "Monorial...Monorail" slogan.
 

I hear those things are awfully loud.
 

It glides as softly as a cloud.
 

I'm going to drive Andy crazy here by saying that I'm not, actually, opposed to a downtown arena in principle or, even, some limited spending of public funds to make it happen.

I'm also unconvinced of the appropriateness of comparing the Northlands "development" with what could be done in creating a complex of arena/hotel/shops/restaurants, etc.

At best, Northlands was built in a time when it was believed "if you build an arena alone, revitalization will follow". More likely it was built in a time when the thinking was more along the lines of "let's put it in an inexpensive semi-industrial area where we can have lots of parking and it can be located beside other large event type places (track, etc.)."

I don't think anyone really believes anymore the simple equation of an arena alone=revitalization. But I think it isn't unreasonable to suggest that an arena could be built together as part of a larger development that can have positive impacts on the surrounding area.

I'd like to see the details on what this SuperMegalaDome would constitute -- but I'm not quite willing to say that arenas are necessarily money-losing, neighbourhood-ruining, traffic-clogging, blights.
 

Tell me again why the Flames are throwing together their own arena proposal? They have an architecturally distinct building with one of the largest capacities in the NHL.

This is why I'm opposed to the Edmonton arena complex proposal. Because I know that what Edmonton wants, like a jealous sibling, Calgary must have, too, and that's bullshit, because it's completely unnecessary, especially with the constant upgrades being made to the existing facility.
 

The "funniest" part about the Diotte April Fool's Day article is that his arguments for an arena in the river valley make just as much sense, if not MORE sense, than the real arguments being pitched for a downtown arena. There have been many other articles written about the benefits of a downtown arena that, if they had been written on April 1st, I would have assumed to be jokes as well.
 

For the record, I'm pretty certain that it was over a year ago that I first read of Ken King saying they were paying/had paid some architectural firm about half a million bucks for a preliminary study (and for that fee, they're going to cover a lot of bases).

As of now, they're doing it the right way: pursuing it as a club project that may eventually need/want some subsidies etc., rather than as some sort of imperative community project.

IMO, anyway. At least that way, when it is first presented to the public and taxpayers, they can say "This is what we want to do, this is why, and these are the community benefits we perceive -- for which we think the community should cough up X." The whole Oilers/City/Northlands deal so far seems incredibly backwards.
 

When it comes to city planning Edmonton has been so wrong for so long that if the average Edmontonian's gut feeling is against a downtown arena then it is unquestionably the right thing to do and the city should proceed as fast as possible with as little public input as possible.

So you're saying the same Edmonton that you concede has made a hash of city planning to the point where its citizens reflexivly distrust any new initiative that comes forward can also be trusted to pull off this magic arena funland? I fail to see the logic behind that kind of thinking.
 

To add to what Matt said, the Stampede grounds are under going major expansion and the Flames want to secure some land in that expansion to keep the Stadium on Stampede grounds. The Flames are not is a rush to demo the Dome but are planning for the future. At some point in the next 10 - 15 years there will discussions about a new stadium and not because "like a jealous sibling, Calgary must have, too,"
 

I don't think anyone really believes anymore the simple equation of an arena alone=revitalization. But I think it isn't unreasonable to suggest that an arena could be built together as part of a larger development that can have positive impacts on the surrounding area.

silly, silly man. you are either completely against the arena or you are completely for it. there is no room for reason in this discussion. this is a black and white issue with no middle ground. there is no room for sensible people like you in my edmonton!!!!!
 

ps since andy is so opposed to wasting precious tax dollars, i'm sure he agreed to pay his own way to toronto to be part of the government sponsored game show. oh wait, i totally forgot that sports trivia feeds the homeless.
 

Actually Matt, you're incorrect about the Flames motives for a new arena..I say this because the truth is Calgary came forward first with their proposal for a new arena, this got the ball rolling even quicker for Edmonton. When the proposal was first brought forward to the Provincial Gov't, it was laughed at, so it was put on the backburner. Not even Ralph Klein could find a strong enough reason for Calgary to get a new arena. However, the real push behind a new Calgary arena is in fact not the Flames, but the Stampede Board and Executive, they want to restructure the entire stampede grounds and build a new arena in a different place on the grounds. They know perfectly well that should Edmonton receive any money towards a new arena that Calgary will get the same amount (sadly, this actually true in practice) therefore what the Flames/Stampede group is doing is watching and waiting to see what happens. If Edmonton even gets $1 million in petty grant money Calgary will come forward right away for the same and with their plans for a new arena.

If you think the debate here in Edmonton is strong for building an arena downtown, just wait until Calgary comes forward asking to build a new arena 1 block away from the current one.

Edmonton may have it backwards, but Calgary has it upside down.
 

10-15 years from now, no, it will have nothing to do with Edmonton, save perhaps some howling about relative government funding levels. If it happens in the next five years, though, you bet your ass it's because Calgary wants the same toys Edmonton got.

As for the idea of moving the building a block away? I fail to see how they'd sell it. Wouldn't it be easier to plan the Stampede Grounds around the existing location of the Saddledome? Clearly, I'm missing something here.
 

ps since andy is so opposed to wasting precious tax dollars, i'm sure he agreed to pay his own way to toronto to be part of the government sponsored game show. oh wait, i totally forgot that sports trivia feeds the homeless.

I actually set up my own "Test the Nation Feasibility Committee." I put my mom, my sister, my best friend, and my dog on it. I wouldn't have expected it with that group, but they came back in favor of me going to Toronto. They also came back with a number and a reason that I sent to the CBC: $350 million dollars, because I have to be in Toronto. CBC agreed quite quickly.

Interestingly, I've revitalized the downtown core ever since I got here. I'm the anchor, of course. But there's a casino attached to my left leg, and a bar on my right leg. I just walk around downtown, swatting hobo terrorists away with my world-class leg buildings. I'm dangerous, yet iconic. There also happens to be a Greenwich Village growing on my upper thigh, which I never could have predicted. There's a spoken word concert going on right now, actually. Some guys playing the bongos and talking about freeing Mumia Abu-Jamal. Intense stuff.
 

I'm going to drive Andy crazy here by saying that I'm not, actually, opposed to a downtown arena in principle or, even, some limited spending of public funds to make it happen.

I doubt anyone's opposed to it "in principle." If the Coliseum were crumbling, building a new one would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Under those conditions I'd be willing to spend way more, STAGGERINGLY more than $450m for a distinctive new arena.
 

I actually set up my own "Test the Nation Feasibility Committee." I put my mom, my sister, my best friend, and my dog on it. I wouldn't have expected it with that group, but they came back in favor of me going to Toronto. They also came back with a number and a reason that I sent to the CBC: $350 million dollars, because I have to be in Toronto. CBC agreed quite quickly.

Interestingly, I've revitalized the downtown core ever since I got here. I'm the anchor, of course. But there's a casino attached to my left leg, and a bar on my right leg. I just walk around downtown, swatting hobo terrorists away with my world-class leg buildings. I'm dangerous, yet iconic. There also happens to be a Greenwich Village growing on my upper thigh, which I never could have predicted. There's a spoken word concert going on right now, actually. Some guys playing the bongos and talking about freeing Mumia Abu-Jamal. Intense stuff.

glad you didn't take it seriously, it wasn't intended to be.