Saturday, December 22, 2007
Presents? Is that what you said? Presents?
--Denis Leary, The Ref
The following words don't really illuminate the full frustration of the coach. You really have to watch some video of it (there's some up on the Oilers homepage, but I saw the juiciest stuff on TSN). MacT was not pleased.
"It's Christmastime and we wrapped it up and gave it to them," said MacTavish. "In the early going, Horc's (Shawn Horcoff) line was flying and I could see we were going to get great goaltending, but we didn't compete hard enough in the second period to get the game.
"You string a team along and let them stay in the game and bad things happen. We lost all the puck battles, they were stronger and more determined on the puck, and it's a bitter pill to swallow."
Not too surprisingly, Ladislav Smid was singled out.
"He was not good and generally when you're hooking guys you're losing your positioning off the boards. They're beating you and jumping to better areas and you have to overcome it by hooking and holding," said MacTavish, who might not play Smid on Sunday in Chicago.
The penalties were one thing, but MacTavish really didn't like Smid's mistake on Elias's goal.
"We talked about it in our meetings about the weakside defenceman not overplaying the strong side of the ice (where the puck-carrier was). I mean it was quite clear that Garon was going to stop everything that was stoppable, and yet we have a weakside defenceman (Smid) giving up the backdoor play again," he said.
Ouch. The backdoor play strikes again!
In more upbeat news, here's a couple stories on Aaron Sorochan's time as an Oiler.
# posted by andy grabia @ 7:08 am 
Comments:
Ummm....
I happened to be sitting watching the game with the person whose opinion on hockey in general I value more than anyone else's last night, and he and I both saw the same thing.
Yeah, Smid can't be giving that play up, but he's chasing because Staios, once again, was out of position numerous times last night.
Some of the blame has to fall on "Steady Steve", as in "Steady Decline". That pairing has been a disaster as a unit.
At least Smid can use the excuse of being young: what's Staios' explanation?
The fact that I felt more comfortable last night when the Souray/Tarnstrom pairing was on the ice was a red-flag. And it's hard to believe that Pitkanen and a rookie in Gilbert are so far ahead of the rest of our defensive corps in terms of performance so far this season.
Should have kept Smith and Smyth as the veteran core (along with Pisani and Horcoff). Chose to keep Moreau and Staios instead, and gave both fat raises. One's never healthy, the other is barely a #4D at this point, and both are locked in for three years after this one.
Brilliant. Throw in signing Souray when Jan Hejda would have probably been more beneficial to this team's needs and I seriously wonder what they're thinking in Oilerland sometimes....
At least Smid can use the excuse of being young: what's Staios' explanation?
He's getting overplayed with a kid who probably shouldn't even be in the NHL yet.
I don't buy it. Once Smid lost his man off the faceoff and let the play go behind the net, that's Staios' guy. Staios fell over, which isn't great but Smid clearly went and jumped to the guy in front of the net - as did the Oilers centre (can't get a number). I assume MacT knows the resposibility he has put on guys and if he says that the weakside guy belonged to Smid, I'm inclined to believe him.
You guys want to buy that all season, it's all Smid's fault that the 5/24 pairing has been garbage, that's your perogative.
My thinking is that they're both to blame. If this was a perfect world, we'd have enough depth that Smid was in the AHL and Staios was anchoring the 3rd set (and making about half as money over half as long a term, but that's another debate altogether). Smid's still green to the point he's going to make mistakes, and Staios has been flat-out bad. That's a bad combination on what's supposed to be the shut-down pairing, methinks.
The Oilers problem right now is that they've got two guys I'd consider reliable top-four d-men. Gilbert and Pitkanen. They'd be a hell of a lot better off if they had found a way to do the Lupul/Pitkanen deal by including Staios and not Smith, extending Gator, and then simply re-upping Hejda and not going after Souray in what was more than anything an ego-stroke to the ticket-buying public ("see, we can spend to the cap!", or "hey, we bagged a top-tier UFA!").
Smith-Hejda, Piktanen-Gilbert. Nice top four for the next 3-5 years, and probably cheaper too over the long-haul.
Well shit HBomb, I've barely tagged Smid all year - I'm talking about the specific play last night. Staios lost the angle on his guy for sure but that wasn't what caused the goal - his man was on the outside and didn't really have the time to go to the net. Smid went to a guy who the centre had and left Elias. All of this after Smid didn't just close the fucking guy out off of the faceoff here.
I mean, what am I fucking missing?
mc79: I don't think the play last night was ALL Smid's fault. Staios was running around too on numerous occasions. And there were a couple instances that didn't result in goals (inclduing at least one Smid penalty) that were a result of Staios doing something stupid.
My frustration is once again the combination of MacT Edmonton media and the fact that Staios appears to be some sort of sacred cow here, and this extends beyond last night. MacT called Smid out for his play last night, which is all well and good, but a couple weeks ago, he actually said that Staios was playing the best hockey of his career this year.
Total fucking bullshit if you ask me. That pairing has not been good (and that's the both of them), and it's been a combination of Smid on the steep learning curve and Staios' game on a steady decline (on top of that, it's hard enough for a veteran defenseman to react when their partner is all over the map with his play, but when it's a 2nd year NHL d-man having to deal with that, the results can be even more disastrous).
Is it wrong for a guy to say that, outside of Stoll, Staios has been the most disappointing Oiler "veteran" this year? IF he was being held to the same standard as, oh, let's say Jarret Stoll or Raffi Torres, would it not be unreasonable to think that the guy would have been HS'd by now?
If Staios/Smid is your third pairing, you're a decent-to-good NHL team. However, when that is your 3/4 defensive set (and, more nights than not, the primary shutdown pairing), your team isn't that good.
Read your post again H. You say that the play last night wasn't Staios' fault and then start talking about other plays. Let's keep the topic focused on the question at hand: did Staios make a fuckup that contributed to that goal against last night? I don't see how he did.
Unless you can offer something other than discussion about plays that aren't the play we're discussing, I'll assume that you're in the same boat here. Whether Staios has sucked all year has nothing to do with who fucked up on that first Devils goal. That's the question at hand - hell you're the one who raised the question. I find it odd that you're talking about bias and how Staios is a sacred cow when you're the one who said that he fucked up on that play (along with this person who you respect more than anyone else in the world on hockey) and, when pressed, you can't seem to come up with the goods here.
My frustration is once again the combination of MacT Edmonton media and the fact that Staios appears to be some sort of sacred cow here, and this extends beyond last night.
Now we're Edmonton media? All we are talking about is one game. Last night. Smid. Terrible. Did Staios take those three penalties for him, too? It sounds to me like you are the one who wants to make it all one person's fault. You dislike Staios. We get it. It doesn't mean Smid didn't stink the joint out last night.
Now we're Edmonton media? All we are talking about is one game. Last night. Smid. Terrible. Did Staios take those three penalties for him, too? It sounds to me like you are the one who wants to make it all one person's fault. You dislike Staios. We get it. It doesn't mean Smid didn't stink the joint out last night.
Staios wasn't exactly Lidstrom out there last night either, and he's got to share the blame. Just because Smid stunk the joint out last night (which I will not deny) doesn't mean that Staios is blameless.
It's BOTH their fault for the way that pairing is not performing. Last night, and going back to the point where they were put back together earlier this season.
Now, if we're going to pin the blame on one person, I can think of two candidates:
- The GM, for not giving the coach enough reliable d-men who can play the tough minutes.
- The coach, whose use of Staios/Smid as a shutdown pairing makes about as much sense as using Torres/Stoll/Stortini as a checking line.
But those points are for debate elsewhere. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I personally think Steve Staios, warrior that he has been in the past, has gotten a bit of a free ride so far this season, when he's been, in my mind, one of the worst Oilers on a nightly basis. For 2.7 million a year in terms of cap hit, he HAS to be better.
tyler: Here's the goods if you want 'em. Personally, I think on the play where Smid left Elias open, he slid over because Staios was chasing the play into the corner when he shouldn't have been and the guy flat-out didn't have the experience to know not to follow along (in agreement with me on this is the opinion of a guy who played defense in the NCAA that was sitting next to me when that goal happened last night and said immediately that Staios was out of position and Smid was the "sheep").
Two fuckups, one goal. You can share the blame between those two - just like the large majority of goals against that happen, it's kind of hard to pin it all one one guy, don't you think?
There's the goods you requested. Delivered in full. I'll stand by my position on this one that Smid's not the sole culprit.
H - This is the guy who played in the NCAA who doesn't turn up on hockeydb, right?
I'm not conceding that Staios shouldn't have gone away from the net there, chased as you're putting it. He had a centre down low to pick up the man in front and, in theory, another defenceman to watch the backside. He looked bad because the guy came around the net at speed, because someone (Smid) let him go off of the faceoff.
This is a different question than whether Staios has been bad all year. You can hold that position without sticking him for the first goal last night.
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Ummm....
I happened to be sitting watching the game with the person whose opinion on hockey in general I value more than anyone else's last night, and he and I both saw the same thing.
Yeah, Smid can't be giving that play up, but he's chasing because Staios, once again, was out of position numerous times last night.
Some of the blame has to fall on "Steady Steve", as in "Steady Decline". That pairing has been a disaster as a unit.
At least Smid can use the excuse of being young: what's Staios' explanation?
The fact that I felt more comfortable last night when the Souray/Tarnstrom pairing was on the ice was a red-flag. And it's hard to believe that Pitkanen and a rookie in Gilbert are so far ahead of the rest of our defensive corps in terms of performance so far this season.
Should have kept Smith and Smyth as the veteran core (along with Pisani and Horcoff). Chose to keep Moreau and Staios instead, and gave both fat raises. One's never healthy, the other is barely a #4D at this point, and both are locked in for three years after this one.
Brilliant. Throw in signing Souray when Jan Hejda would have probably been more beneficial to this team's needs and I seriously wonder what they're thinking in Oilerland sometimes....
At least Smid can use the excuse of being young: what's Staios' explanation?
He's getting overplayed with a kid who probably shouldn't even be in the NHL yet.
I don't buy it. Once Smid lost his man off the faceoff and let the play go behind the net, that's Staios' guy. Staios fell over, which isn't great but Smid clearly went and jumped to the guy in front of the net - as did the Oilers centre (can't get a number). I assume MacT knows the resposibility he has put on guys and if he says that the weakside guy belonged to Smid, I'm inclined to believe him.
# posted by 
: December 22, 2007 12:30 pm
: December 22, 2007 12:30 pm You guys want to buy that all season, it's all Smid's fault that the 5/24 pairing has been garbage, that's your perogative.
My thinking is that they're both to blame. If this was a perfect world, we'd have enough depth that Smid was in the AHL and Staios was anchoring the 3rd set (and making about half as money over half as long a term, but that's another debate altogether). Smid's still green to the point he's going to make mistakes, and Staios has been flat-out bad. That's a bad combination on what's supposed to be the shut-down pairing, methinks.
The Oilers problem right now is that they've got two guys I'd consider reliable top-four d-men. Gilbert and Pitkanen. They'd be a hell of a lot better off if they had found a way to do the Lupul/Pitkanen deal by including Staios and not Smith, extending Gator, and then simply re-upping Hejda and not going after Souray in what was more than anything an ego-stroke to the ticket-buying public ("see, we can spend to the cap!", or "hey, we bagged a top-tier UFA!").
Smith-Hejda, Piktanen-Gilbert. Nice top four for the next 3-5 years, and probably cheaper too over the long-haul.
Well shit HBomb, I've barely tagged Smid all year - I'm talking about the specific play last night. Staios lost the angle on his guy for sure but that wasn't what caused the goal - his man was on the outside and didn't really have the time to go to the net. Smid went to a guy who the centre had and left Elias. All of this after Smid didn't just close the fucking guy out off of the faceoff here.
I mean, what am I fucking missing?
# posted by : December 22, 2007 1:49 pm
: December 22, 2007 1:49 pm mc79: I don't think the play last night was ALL Smid's fault. Staios was running around too on numerous occasions. And there were a couple instances that didn't result in goals (inclduing at least one Smid penalty) that were a result of Staios doing something stupid.
My frustration is once again the combination of MacT Edmonton media and the fact that Staios appears to be some sort of sacred cow here, and this extends beyond last night. MacT called Smid out for his play last night, which is all well and good, but a couple weeks ago, he actually said that Staios was playing the best hockey of his career this year.
Total fucking bullshit if you ask me. That pairing has not been good (and that's the both of them), and it's been a combination of Smid on the steep learning curve and Staios' game on a steady decline (on top of that, it's hard enough for a veteran defenseman to react when their partner is all over the map with his play, but when it's a 2nd year NHL d-man having to deal with that, the results can be even more disastrous).
Is it wrong for a guy to say that, outside of Stoll, Staios has been the most disappointing Oiler "veteran" this year? IF he was being held to the same standard as, oh, let's say Jarret Stoll or Raffi Torres, would it not be unreasonable to think that the guy would have been HS'd by now?
If Staios/Smid is your third pairing, you're a decent-to-good NHL team. However, when that is your 3/4 defensive set (and, more nights than not, the primary shutdown pairing), your team isn't that good.
Read your post again H. You say that the play last night wasn't Staios' fault and then start talking about other plays. Let's keep the topic focused on the question at hand: did Staios make a fuckup that contributed to that goal against last night? I don't see how he did.
Unless you can offer something other than discussion about plays that aren't the play we're discussing, I'll assume that you're in the same boat here. Whether Staios has sucked all year has nothing to do with who fucked up on that first Devils goal. That's the question at hand - hell you're the one who raised the question. I find it odd that you're talking about bias and how Staios is a sacred cow when you're the one who said that he fucked up on that play (along with this person who you respect more than anyone else in the world on hockey) and, when pressed, you can't seem to come up with the goods here.
# posted by : December 22, 2007 2:34 pm
: December 22, 2007 2:34 pm My frustration is once again the combination of MacT Edmonton media and the fact that Staios appears to be some sort of sacred cow here, and this extends beyond last night.
Now we're Edmonton media? All we are talking about is one game. Last night. Smid. Terrible. Did Staios take those three penalties for him, too? It sounds to me like you are the one who wants to make it all one person's fault. You dislike Staios. We get it. It doesn't mean Smid didn't stink the joint out last night.
Now we're Edmonton media? All we are talking about is one game. Last night. Smid. Terrible. Did Staios take those three penalties for him, too? It sounds to me like you are the one who wants to make it all one person's fault. You dislike Staios. We get it. It doesn't mean Smid didn't stink the joint out last night.
Staios wasn't exactly Lidstrom out there last night either, and he's got to share the blame. Just because Smid stunk the joint out last night (which I will not deny) doesn't mean that Staios is blameless.
It's BOTH their fault for the way that pairing is not performing. Last night, and going back to the point where they were put back together earlier this season.
Now, if we're going to pin the blame on one person, I can think of two candidates:
- The GM, for not giving the coach enough reliable d-men who can play the tough minutes.
- The coach, whose use of Staios/Smid as a shutdown pairing makes about as much sense as using Torres/Stoll/Stortini as a checking line.
But those points are for debate elsewhere. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I personally think Steve Staios, warrior that he has been in the past, has gotten a bit of a free ride so far this season, when he's been, in my mind, one of the worst Oilers on a nightly basis. For 2.7 million a year in terms of cap hit, he HAS to be better.
tyler: Here's the goods if you want 'em. Personally, I think on the play where Smid left Elias open, he slid over because Staios was chasing the play into the corner when he shouldn't have been and the guy flat-out didn't have the experience to know not to follow along (in agreement with me on this is the opinion of a guy who played defense in the NCAA that was sitting next to me when that goal happened last night and said immediately that Staios was out of position and Smid was the "sheep").
Two fuckups, one goal. You can share the blame between those two - just like the large majority of goals against that happen, it's kind of hard to pin it all one one guy, don't you think?
There's the goods you requested. Delivered in full. I'll stand by my position on this one that Smid's not the sole culprit.
H - This is the guy who played in the NCAA who doesn't turn up on hockeydb, right?
I'm not conceding that Staios shouldn't have gone away from the net there, chased as you're putting it. He had a centre down low to pick up the man in front and, in theory, another defenceman to watch the backside. He looked bad because the guy came around the net at speed, because someone (Smid) let him go off of the faceoff.
This is a different question than whether Staios has been bad all year. You can hold that position without sticking him for the first goal last night.
# posted by : December 22, 2007 4:38 pm
: December 22, 2007 4:38 pm Post a Comment
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