Sunday, October 21, 2007

 

Raffi Torres is not smart

Two interesting bits post-game from Jean Lefebvre:
Both skippers had a little steam coming out of their ears following Saturday's Battle of Alberta installment.

On the losing Edmonton side, Craig MacTavish got into a post-game shouting match with his defenceman Steve Staios in full view of media members. MacTavish declined to comment on the exchange in his media scrum a few minutes later.

Meanwhile, Calgary's Mike Keenan is displeased by the Raffi Torres hit that knocked Flames winger David Moss out of the game.

"That was a hit that the league is trying to address," said Keenan. "It was a blindside hit and David Moss suffered a concussion as a result of it. I thought it was a type of hit that the league is trying to discourage and I am sure the league will review the hit. [...]"

I can't find anything else about this shouting match, though I suppose I'm not surprised that the Edmonton media didn't address it. On the other thing, I'll be interested to see what happens. I think it's fair to say that Torres picked a bad time to smoke someone from the blind side. Not only was he (by most accounts) playing his best hockey of the season in the past two games, but the league is also on pretty high alert for hits to the head. There are certainly mitigating factors (no elbow, didn't launch himself), but it was still an illegal hit that caused a concussion (Moss is out for at least the San Jose game, then is day-to-day).

Word was in training camp that Raffi found himself a lady friend who was helping him pull his head out of his ass. Looks like that job is still in progress.

Comments:

Speaking of dangerous shit Matt, care to comment on that dumb fucker Hale sticking his leg out on Hemsky?

Might not be a head-shot, but it's just as dangerous in my books.
 


Didn't look to me like Hale actually got Hemsky with his leg. Hemsky not being injured on the play would seem to bolster that. But, if he receives supplementary discipline for it, I'd understand.
 


Illegal hit? Moss ran a pick and paid for it. I didn't even understand the 2 minute penalty.
 


Hale definitely had the knee out. But I wouldn't suspend him for that, either. Just looked like something that happened at high speed.
 


I think the two Edmonton papers published a total of two Oiler stories today. One was by Ireland, the other was by Francis. So really, one story from a local writer. In light of the shouting match, it makes me go, "hmmm."
 


10 p.m. deadline for early edition.
 


Matt:

I'll concur with what Andy said....dangerous play, but supplementary, I don't think is deserved there.

Did Hale even get a penalty on the play though? To me, that's worth 2 minutes, no more, no less.
 


10 p.m. deadline for early edition.

Lame excuse, especially since there is this thing called the World Wide Web now.
 


Does anyone have anything on the Staios thing?
 


I wasn't joking, LT. I checked both papers. There really were only two stories between the two papers. And nothing in either on that.
 


I'll probably need to look at the hit again. Have headshots been banned now? I'm all for doing that, but I was under the impression that nothing had been done in that regard, so I don't get the complaining.
 


Did I miss something after the 3-1 goal? I turned the game off and went back to playing World of Warcraft at that point.
 


Torres didn't move, didn't change his skating angle, didn't raise his body into the hit, didn't do anything other than bump into Moss. Blaming that shit on Raffi is BS -- you run into Raf it's like a freight train, keep your head up. Look at the replay- Torres didn't even try to make contact with him, it was incidental. Boo frickety hoo.
 


illegal hit? Moss ran a pick and paid for it. I didn't even understand the 2 minute penalty.

You're joking, right Andy? Running a pick? Moss didn't even know Torres was there (otherwise I'm guessing he would have, you know, defended himself).

Torres didn't move, didn't change his skating angle, didn't raise his body into the hit, didn't do anything other than bump into Moss. Blaming that shit on Raffi is BS

You're right...avoiding guys that don't have the puck and aren't facing you isn't a players responsibility. I mean, who in the world would reasonably expect Torres to somehow CHANGE HIS SKATING ANGLE?

Cmon gentleman. Im not suggesting a buring at the stake for poor ol' Raffi here, but that was a blindside hit on a guy without the puck resulting in a concussion.

I can't imagine what you guys would say if the situation were reversed and the names were changed to "Phaneuf" and "Hemsky".
 


If two players run into each other while looking elsewhere and one of them is hurt, do you blame the guy who could skate away? If so, why?
 


Cmon gentleman. Im not suggesting a buring at the stake for poor ol' Raffi here, but that was a blindside hit on a guy without the puck resulting in a concussion.

Well, there's nothing to suggest the collision was anything but incidental. I mean, Raffi wasn't even looking at the guy.

I can't imagine what you guys would say if the situation were reversed and the names were changed to "Phaneuf" and "Hemsky".

I'd want Dion given a Columbian Necktie. Not much of a departure fom my usual attitude towards Phaneuf, but it would be unjustified by the circumstances.
 


Exactly- if there was any evidence Raffi even knew he was about to run into another player then I'd be with you guys -- I'd chalk it up to another borderline dirty play. In this case, however, it was incidental contact, and too bad so sad that one player got hurt.

It was a fluke injury but shit happens. FTR I wasn't complaining when Oilers were getting concussed left and right last year - keep your head up, it's the NHL. This whole "hit to the head" shit is getting to be a group whine-a-thon. It started with the Neil-Drury hit last year, which wasn't close to a headshot. If guys did up their chin straps properly more than half the head injuries could be avoided.
 


If two players run into each other while looking elsewhere and one of them is hurt, do you blame the guy who could skate away? If so, why?

Not at all. Too bad that's in no way what happened here.

Well, there's nothing to suggest the collision was anything but incidental. I mean, Raffi wasn't even looking at the guy.

I suppose you're implying here that Torres didn't see Moss, who was quite literally right in front of him, and ran him over completely by accident. That doesn't strike me as probable, given each players relative position to each other on the ice.

Exactly- if there was any evidence Raffi even knew he was about to run into another player then I'd be with you guys

As I note above, Moss was directly in front of Torres. A simple swerve, reduction in speed etc. on Torres' part would have avoided the collision. He chose not to do that and bulldozed a guy who didn't have the puck and was caught unaware. So therefore Torres is either, a.) blind, b.) borderline retarded and unable to appreciate the potential results of his actions or, c.) actually responsible for what occurred.

For the record, I dont want to overly vilify Torres or cast him as some sort of headhunting monster. But it seems self-serving for you guys to deem the hit as some sort of unavoidably random accident.
 


Let's not forget Torres has a history of dirty hits.

Jason Williams, Milan Michalek...

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3168330680976485233

Even the most ardent Oilers fan has to know that Torres could clearly see the guy right infront of him. They act like it's out of character for Torres to make a dirty hit. Unreal.
 


I suppose you're implying here that Torres didn't see Moss, who was quite literally right in front of him, and ran him over completely by accident. That doesn't strike me as probable, given each players relative position to each other on the ice.

Torres’s right shoulder made contact with Moss’s head, which, if Moss was “quite literally right in front of him,” would have required Raffi to change direction or body position to connect as he did. But you say Raffi didn’t change course, so we’ve got a bit of a contradiction on our hands.
 


Left shoulder, I mean.
 


Let's not forget Torres has a history of dirty hits.

There's nothing dirty about the Williams hit. The guy cuts in front of the net with the puck, and gets hit square on an instant after making a pass. It wasn't an elbow, or a jump, or a big run. It was a clean hit and the guy got hurt. Grow some nuts. This reminds me of ppl. moaning about how Colby Armstrong's hits on Eaves and Koivu were "late" when both guys still had the puck. It's the NHL, there are many ways to get injured. Doing up your helmet properly will avoid several of them. Keeping your head up will cover much of the rest.
 


Too bad that's in no way what happened here.

I've rewatched that hit three times. You cannot convince me there was any malice there. Carelessness or inattention, maybe. Hell, you could even say that maybe Raffi and/or Moss misjudged their angles/speed. I don't know why you or Mike Brophy would need to be reminded that NHLers Make Mistakes, Too, but that's also possible. But we've seen Raffi hit to the head and mean it. This is not it. The fine is for the result, and nothing else.
 


I swear I thought Moss would be called for interference on that play when I saw it. I didn't even think the collision was that violent or intentional. Ambivalent about the penalty, but think the fine is just PR garbage.
 


Andy: I thought your idea that it was a Moss pick was nuts. Until I looked over the video. You are correct. Moss accidently picked raffi and got his bell rung.

Calgary is breaking into the zone. Moss is heading in the direction of Torres. Mosses head is turned towards his player. If Mosses intent was to turn under his attacking player he would have been missed. Torres eyes are down and directed towards the puck. He is unaware of moss comming at him.

I do not think either guy should have got a penalty. Neither made eye contact with each other.

Now the fine: Colin Campbell is a racist Scottish bastard.
He hates Natives and Mexicans. He gave TooToo 5 games for defending himself from a Glass jawed boy who was trying to downie his ass.

He fines Torres for being picked.

I think we should go to a whole bunch of Darcy tucker hits and use them as precedent for fines and suspensions.Go to youtube and see what tucker gets zero games for. Downie got screwed.
 


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