Tuesday, August 28, 2007

 

Summer Moves: Who Wins?

Edmonton Oilers
Additions: Dustin Penner, Sheldon Souray, Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson, Mathieu Garon, Dick Tarnstrom, Rob Daum

Subtractions: Petr Sykora, Jason Smith, Joffrey Lupul, Jan Hejda, Jussi Markannen, Daniel Tjarnqvist, Petr Nedved, Toby Peterson, Brad Winchester, Craig Simpson

Extensions: Raffi Torres, Matt Greene, Dennis Grebeshkov, Mathieu Roy

Calgary Flames
Additions: Mike Keenan, Adrian Aoucoin, Cory Sarich, Owen Nolan, Anders Erikson

Subtractions: Roman Hamrlik, Brad Stuart, Mark Giordano, Andrei Zyuzin, Jeff Friesen, Tony Amonte, Jim Playfair (sorta)

Extensions: Jarome Iginla, Robyn Regehr, Matthew Lombardi, Marcus Nilson, Wayne Primeau, David Hale

Comments:

I think the Oil win. You skipped the addition of AHL team which is going to be key in development of the younger players. Does this mean the Oilers are going to win the Division ...???
 


I would like to note that both teams have Subtractions that feel a lot more like Additions... surely Lupul, Simpson, Amonte, Friesen, and Playfair all qualify here.
 


I'm actually torn. I really want to say the Flames, if for no other reason than the Iginla signing. But the Keenan acquisition makes it impossible to do. The guy is a franchise killer. He just is, and I don't see how it can be avoided.
 


Agreed, Matt. I just thought I would put it in the simplest terms, and then let people discuss. Like I just said, that Keenan addition certainly feels like a subtraction, though it is mitigated by the Playfair subtraction, which seems like an addition.
 


I'm also torn... as much as I'd love to say the Flames dominated the off-season, it looks fairly even. Both teams rid themselves of dead weight and they addressed glaring needs on the blueline.

I think the Iginla signing is the breaker and out-weighs the possible negatives of Keenan. Not having the keep him or trade him discussions on a daily basis eliminates a huge distraction.
 


Tough to say who wins but I would wager the Oilers will have more goals and wins this year compared to last.

The Flames are always a Kipper injury away from Hades. There's a lot of eggs in that basket.
 


I'm not sure that droping Lupul for Sanderson was a plus by any teams standards other then the OilersNation who have ailenated him now. Smith for Pittkinen are you kidding me you give up on your Captian for an underpreforming Euro. Signing Penner to a big contract just setting up to not live up to and be ran out of town. and treating two of there first round picks like they were already in the second round. the Oilers definatley are not better off then they were three months ago, Lowe must have schemed to not improve a team with 3 first rounders and all the cap space and money in the world but he did it. The flames mean while have made several horazontal moves the best one they made was seemingly sending Lombo to worlds. But i would call it a tie, Leaving the Flames still miles ahead of the oilers.
 


I've warmed up to the Keenan hiring quite a bit since it was announced. Granted, I was pretty cool to it then, absolute zero cool, so warmer was the only direction I could go.

He can't be worse than Playfair, he just can't be. So that has to be a net plus. Granted, in 18-24 months we will probably be happy to see him go, but for now, I think it's a positive.

How well the Oilers did in the off season depends a lot on whether Penner works out as well as hoped. It's a lot of pressure for a pretty young guy. Granted, he has to be better than Lupul. And surely the Oilers have to be better than the March-April Oilers we saw last year.
 


Flames win because they re-signed their big players like Jarome Iginla and Robyn Regehr instead of trading them for magic beans.

(I'm still sore about the Smyth trade? Hell yeah.)
 


Swapping Lupul for Sanderson not a positive? Anonymouse strikes again!

In 81 games Lupul was -29 on a team with a -37 goal differential, and put up a paltry 28 points.

In 58 games Sanderson was -16 on a team with a whopping -89 goal differential, and put up a similarly paltry 29 points.

So basically what I'm trying to say is, you could put a mannequin in hockey gear on the ice and it would have been less of a detriment to the team than Lupul was last year. Lupul swapped for anyone is addition by subtraction.
 


Smith for Pittkinen are you kidding me you give up on your Captian for an underpreforming Euro.

That's a joke right? How the hell did they "give up on a captain"? The guy is a warrior no doubt but he's on the verge of free agency and pushing 34 and starting to slow.

And in a year when under performing on a suck team means still scoring 40+ points, what the hell happens if he performs? Well I guess when you're as old as 24 you're never going to improve right...Christ, did anonymouse even THINK before he posted?
 


The Flames look terrific short term to me. This time next year Keenan will have established his favorites and divisions will have formed in the framework, but Keenan is a killer on a short track.

As for the Oilers, they needed to add more NHL players than they subtracted. Picking up all those guys with fancy numbers is fine, but I suggest we all take a guess as to how many times we collectively say "wish we had Jason Smith back there tonight."
 


COILERS got SCREWED this year.

Pitkanen = downhill since the injury and horrible +/-

Souray = WORST defensive D-man in the league, and unproven as a consistent goal scorer

Sanderson = a washed up old bag of a man, who will be lucky to get 25 points as a COILER

Penner = HUGE overpay for a guy who was CARRIED by his linemates and a rock-solid all-star offensive D; BIGGEST target to disappoint in the Western Conference

Mathieu Garon = admittedly he's pretty good, but as a COILER behind ROLOSON, he's doomed to play 9 times because MacT is a buffoon

Dick Tarnstrom = given what little D left in the BOILER room, an okay pick up. but with a stacked D, Tarnstrom is looking to take away ice time from Tom Gilbert, a guy who's on a career path to excel beyond Tarnstrom. so a NET MINUS

------

The FLAMES have excelled

KEENAN is the NHL-calibre coach we need to light a fire under the asses of our sagging 2-4 lines.

Owen Nolan = pure grit. Love this pickup

Adrian Aucoin = a well-seasoned Dman who will play a big role for us. Great pickup

Cory Sarich = this guy has really come into his own lately, and sports a nifty +/- for such a shitballs team. Solid D pickup.

Anders Erikson = great size, should be adept at kicking some COILER ass this year. Needs some work on his skating, but overall a fun pickup.
 


fever4flames once again proves who has the DUMBEST fan base in the NHL...

Oilers: Pitkanen-top-line d-man who can score like crazy
Souray- good leadership and grit, a bomb from the PP
Sanderson- if he can equal Lupul's offence while having a decent +/- it's a huge win
Penner- Big man who scored 29 goals in the his 2nd season, hasn't even reached his peak yet
Tarnstrom- decent 6th d-man who can move the puck
Garon- Good back-up who might replace Roli next year...who do the Flames have?

Flames: Aucoin- injury prone D-man who may or may finish the year...old, slow and expensive
Sarich- good defensive d-man but a downgrade from Hamrlik puck-moving skills
Eriksson- meh, the guy smells like Zyuzin ver 2.0
Nolan- another wonky-kneed old guy who's another risk
Mike Keenan- 'nuff said

Losing Lupul's suckage and the Flames gaining hockey greatest monster means the Oil win this one hands down..I look forward to seeing Keenan rip Huselius again and shatter his confidence, yanking Kipper after 1 soft goal and the inevitable power struggle between him and Sutter.

Jordan
 


Probably fair to point out that if you think of the summer as a 100 metre sprint, the Flames were starting at about the 50 metre mark.
 


From someone who hates both teams, I gotta hand this one to the Oilers. Pitkanen had 40 points on the league doormat. If you actually watched him play last year, you'd be jacked that he's now on your team. Without passing comment on Lupul, Sanderson is not automatically an upgrade; his lifetime plus/minus is triple-digits in the red. As for the Flames, they could have added Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky in their primes and I'd still get against them for the simple reason that hiring Mike Keenan - for those of you who have been off-planet for 13 years - is like throwing a vial of anthrax into the dressing room. I would pay top dollar to be at the meeting where Ken King, Darryl Sutter and Mike Keenan sit down to talk about the Flames' 4-12 start.
 


As for the Flames, they could have added Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky in their primes and I'd still get against them for the simple reason that hiring Mike Keenan - for those of you who have been off-planet for 13 years - is like throwing a vial of anthrax into the dressing room.

I'm laughing so hard, that I'm nearly in tears.
 


Probably fair to point out that if you think of the summer as a 100 metre sprint, the Flames were starting at about the 50 metre mark.

True, but they shouldn't be punished for that. I'm not going to blame them for being smart enough to sign Iginla and Regehr. Our GM put us 50 metres behind because he didn't understand the cap was going up this year. Course, the Flames also picked up Keenan, so who knows how smart they really are. Only time will tell, I guess. I have a feeling Sutter will be back behind the bench by January.
 


I actually like the Keenan addition. I'm probably crazy, but what Keenan is is exactly what the Flames need. The Flames need a firecracker lit under their asses to get them moving. A great team on paper that barely makes the playoffs is embarrassing.

Sure Keenan is a "destroyer of worlds" when it comes to longevity, but the Flames aren't looking to next season, or the season after that. Nearly all the top-players' contracts are up at the end of this season. It's now or never for them, and Keenan's the spark they need.

I can see him leading these guys to the playoffs, but he probably won't be here next year. One year of him is all we need.

As for who did better on the free agent market, I'll have to say the Oilers. They picked up a lot of good replacements for their baggage (Lupul, etc.) and a decent backup in Garon.

The Flames plugged some defensive holes and added some grit up front, but nothing too substantial. They didn't really need the overhaul that the Oilers did. Even the backup to Kipprusoff they can bring in from farm teams. They have a wealth of young goaltenders, and there's no need to bring in a guy from another team who's only going to play 10 games (if that).

Overall, I'd say the Oilers made the bigger splash, but it was because they had more to rebuild.
 


Wow, Art and I actually agree on something for once...er, twice (Pitkanen, and Keenan).

Only a Lamer fan could envision Pitkanen as a problem, so Jordan's right too. Calgary fans are the dumbest lot out there (Vic, I'll just say your former Flame fan-hood explains an awful lot...).

Case in point, Calgary hosted Saskatchewan last week (yeah, CFL game...keep reading). Great game, goes to OT. Calgary scores a TD on their posession. The Riders must answer. Sack. Uh-oh. Looks like the Stamps will leapfrog the Esks. 2nd and long from the Stamps 47, Joseph escapes pressure and throws a long strike that Vladdy Guerrero would be proud of. TD Riders. OT continues. Phew. But wait...it goes to review. Afterwards, the ref announces: "The line of scrimmage was the 47, the quarterback threw the ball from the 48..." The ref is drowned out by Stampeder fans as they erupt, thinking they've won the game. Numbskulls. Another laughable demonstration of Calgary fan's cumulative intelligence goes in the books (really, we were laughing).
 


Yeah Rod, Calgary fans are sure dumb. I was at that great Stamps overtime game last week ... with all those other dummies.

I was smart enough to notice that we were playing BC though.

Go Stamps

Go Flames
 


Damn. Knew I should have double checked that. Lousy memory and fact checking aside, the point holds. Strange I could remember the announcement though. Obviously that was the highlight for me (along with the comical reaction from the Calgary fans...and the Stamps bench).

Labour Day coming up Peter. Hope you enjoy last place. Go Esks!
 


COILERS fans are the ones who are morons. How can anyone honestly believe that the HUGE overpay of Souray and Penner are nothing less than DISASTROUS MISTAKES. Furthermore, Pitkanen has lost his groove for good, Sanderson is out of gas, and the Deadmonton Defense is in shambles--worse than at any point in the last 10 years.

I've never been happier to be a Flames fan.
 


This fever idiot reminds me of Birch Barlow.

"So, my friends, let's just junk those DUMBocrats and their bleeding-heart SMELLfare program."

The thing with Flames fans is that they all sound like kids. Are there any grown-up Calgarians on here, besides Matt, MG and possibly peter? Yeesh.
 


GotDot or whatever handle he has is pretty decent and I've seen a bunch; only problem is the idiots like Fever tend to rattle the pots the loudest and get noticed more.

Pitkanen "losing his groove" as it were forever at the advanced age of 24 and 40+ points on a bad team has got to be one of the stupidest things I've read a commentator here state.
 


I can vouch for Peter. Now that Nathan Muhly fellow...that dude's insane.
 


The Flames biggest off season addition was Mike Keenan, nuff said.

The Oilers on the other hand have definately improved since July 1st. We lost Smith, but we added Souray, Pitkanen, Tarnstrom and Grebeshkov to the blue line. Souray can replace Smith's grit with Matt Greene's help I'd think.

People will point to the fact that Souray and Pitkanen had horrible +/- last year, but I think its being overblown. Staios and Smith were never plus players before they came to the Oilers.

Smith was a career -17 before he came to the Oilers. He was +50 with the Oil. Same goes for Staios. He was a career -72 before joining the Oil (playing on crappy teams will do that to you). He's +45 with the Oil. Last season was the first time in their Oiler careers that they both finished in the minus.

We lost Sykora, Lupul, Petersen, Winchester, and Smyth. We added Penner and Sanderson.

Torres and Stoll should easily combine to replace Sykora, Petersen, and Winchester's goals.

I think Sanderson can replace Lupul's production. The biggest question mark is can Penner come close to Smyth's 36 goals (I say yes, he'll get close to 30).

I'd say we're on track for replacing all the goals we lost since the start of the 06/07 season, especially considering guys like Horcoff, Stoll, Torres, Pisani, and Hemsky should have much, much better seasons.

The Oilers were 17th in GAA last season. I can only see that improving, considering in the last 20 games the Oilers were close to -50 with only one veteran D-man (Smith) and a tonne of injuries/players playing hurt.

PK should still be top notch, and our PP should improve dramatically with the additions of Souray and Pitkanen. The biggest question is going to be our ES scoring, which I'm somewhat optimistic about.

I honestly think the Oilers are going to surprise a lot of people this season.
 


I'm more of a lurker, but I'd just like to say on behalf of literate Flames fans everywhere that fever is a jackass, despite who he cheers for.

Also, I think the Oilers probably improved more this offseason from a percentage standpoint (simply because they were much lower to begin with), but from an absolute standpoint, it looks pretty even to me. The Oilers lost some significant NHL talent and replaced it with some young upside and a risky d-man. The Flames signed their stars, lost 2 key defencemen, and replaced them with slightly riskier players. Overall, it looks like a wash to me.
 


Souray can replace Smith's grit with Matt Greene's help I'd think.

That is the most ridiculous statement I've read from an Oilers fan this year.

Yeah, keep reaching for that rainbow, Edmonton.
 


That is the most ridiculous statement I've read from an Oilers fan this year.

Yeah, keep reaching for that rainbow, Edmonton.


Thanks for reinforcing the Calgary stereotype.
 


And just what stereotype would that be, exactly? That Calgary fans are grounded in reality?
 


Calgary Flames

This is a team that on paper should play well into the spring. Goaltender. Check. Defensive studs surrounded by depth. Check. Top six forwards including a guy name Jerome. Check. Hockey-type GM. Check. Salary cap room. Check. Coach with beady eyes and a pencil thin mustache. Check again.

With eight teams making the big dance and seven standing against wall waiting, fantasizing, that maybe they to will one day rule the floor, somebody who thinks they deserve to awkwardly hold a pretty girl will do a head count and find themselves without partner. Why Calgary? This team is either going to find chemistry in training camp, blow teams out of the water all winter, sing Kumbaya with the coach and all smugly wear pretty green hard hats. Or. An out-of-the-box madman at the helm, lofty expectations and intense media scrutiny will blow this tight knit group apart. In poker terms, this team is pot committed and all-in. This season will go one of two ways. Since Keenan has not made the playoffs with four different teams since 1996, the captain is comfortably secured under contract for the next six season and the teams MVP, who I might add wears the pads, is not, I think that this team blows apart at some point and spends the rest of the season trying to right the listing ship. Calgary may win the Presidents Trophy, but I would have a much better winter watching them flail.

Edmonton Oilers

I like what Kevin Lowe is doing in Edmonton. Right, wrong, stupid or necessary, Lowe is getting his hands dirty. Reserving comment on the moves that he has made over that last 14 months he has done one thing that makes the Oilers stand out from the pack. The Oilers are prospect heavy, plain and simple. That might not put W's in the column now, but if your team is not a contender a forward thinking man sells his aging assets for handfuls of youth. The plan for this year should be to play the hell out of the kids and have a powerplay success rate over 20%. A turnaround for this teams is sooner on the horizon than later.
 


And just what stereotype would that be, exactly?

Maybe you should read a thread before jumping into it. Although I suppose that would require some form of forethought, so I can see where this all went wrong for you.
 


That is the most ridiculous statement I've read from an Oilers fan this year.

Souray *is* gritty. "Grit" isn't the same thing as "competent defensive play" (Smith just happened to have both), but he is gritty.
 


I feel so bad for Flames fans with cognitive ability...they have so many weak links within under the umbrella of Flames fandom that they can't help but come off with the stigma they seem to have as idiots with the combined mental capacity of an immature 14 year old.
 


I feel so bad for Flames fans with cognitive ability...they have so many weak links within under the umbrella of Flames fandom that they can't help but come off with the stigma they seem to have as idiots with the combined mental capacity of an immature 14 year old.

Learn to write a proper sentence, then insult people's intelligence. Cart, horse, okay?
 


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