Monday, February 12, 2007

 

Questions

"Am I wrong in thinking that the trade was announced late last night? I don't recall reading anything at all in the paper about the trade this morning. Not to say that they necessarily would have been all over it otherwise, but I think the verdict on access to Lowe's reaction should wait until at least tomorrow, no?"

A fair note from commenter Par last night in response to my complaining about not hearing anything from the Oilers about Calgary's acquisition of Brad Stuart. I was out all day and night Saturday, so I was not in the know about when the deal went down. Sure enough, in today's Edmonton Sun, there is a story. Pretty much the exact same quotes are used in a story by Jim Matheson in the Edmonton Journal, too. Of interest to me is the following:

a) Oilers General Manager Kevin Lowe is not quoted in either story. Nor is Assistant General Manager Scott Howson. It's head coach Craig MacTavish.

b) The first line being thrown around is that it was "too expensive" to acquire Stuart.

c) The second line being thrown around is that Darryl Sutter had an advantage in making the deal because he knew all four of the players involved.

Can we assume, in looking at point A, that the management team is unable to speak to the media, and therefore the public at large, because they are very busy attempting to work out another deal? Or is there another reason why the two gentlemen ultimately responsible for player transactions are so visibly absent from the conversation?

In looking at point B, what exactly does "too expensive" mean? It certainly couldn't be a salary cap issue, unless there is some cost the Oilers are paying that I am completely unaware of. So does that mean that the "too expensive" cost had to do with what was requested in terms of player personnel? I assume it must. But I also find this confusing, if only because I don't think what the Flames gave up--Chuck Kobasew and Andrew Ference--is too steep of a price. Were the Bruins demanding Raffi Torres in every scenario? Were there prospects or draft picks so valuable to the organization that they couldn't be flipped? In the end, why couldn't comparables to Kobasew and Ference be found, along with a little sugar to sweeten the pot?

As for point C, I'm stumped. I have no idea what this argument is supposed to articulate. Neither Primeau or Stuart had a no-trade clause, so it wasn't necessary to convince them that playing for another team was a good idea. There was no option for them to say, "yes, I'd love to play for Darryl Sutter" or, "no, that team can't win on the road." And unless things have really fallen by the wayside in Boston--which is not out of the realm of possibility--Sutter negotiated the deal with the Bruins manager, Peter Chiarelli, not the players. So what, exactly, was MacT's point? How, in this situation, did Sutter's knowing give him an advantage over the Oilers?

***Update The Stars have acquired Ladislav Nagy from the Coyotes for Mathias Tjarnqvist and a 1st Round Draft pick in 07. In his post on the Stuart pick up, Mirtle calls it a sellers market, but I remain unconvinced. I don't think the cost in either the Stuart or the Nagy deal was unreasonably high.

Comments:

c) The second line being thrown around is that Darryl Sutter had an advantage in making the deal because he knew all four of the players involved.

As for point C, I'm stumped. I have no idea what this argument is supposed to articulate.


Andy, I think he is implying that Sutter probably had a decent idea as to what these players would bring to the table and, therefore, what he could afford to give away to get them.

He also seems to have a knack for noticing when his old Sharks players are not being used to their full potential and then getting more value out of them...
 


Andy, I think he is implying that Sutter probably had a decent idea as to what these players would bring to the table and, therefore, what he could afford to give away to get them.

I hear that. But if that's the case, it's a pretty crappy argument on their part, isn't it? I mean, why the hell do the Oilers have scouts, then?

He also seems to have a knack for noticing when his old Sharks players are not being used to their full potential and then getting more value out of them...

Shudder. God still owes me a major injury on that one.
 


Good post Andy.

Didn't really understand the whole point of Sutter knowing the players either although using that logic Lowe should have the inside track on acquiring Brewer, Dvorak, Guerin, Weight and Woyitka for, let's say, a pair of Karen Percy's skis and a lock of Simpson's hair.

The time for Lowe to make a deal was in December when the Oilers were in first place. Or earlier then that. He has waited too long.

Having said that the Stuart deal - pass anyhow. That price for 25 games of Stuart when you're six points out. Nope.

Someone made the point (one of the IOF guys I think) that hell should being raised over Nashville getting Vishnevski. A decent player and cheap at that. A couple of guys like that back in october and the Oilers are likely sitting pretty.

Instead they have no margin for error and with Stoll and San Fernando out now, well ...

sigh.
 


Having said that the Stuart deal - pass anyhow. That price for 25 games of Stuart when you're six points out. Nope.

If the Flames don't re-sign Stuart I will be shocked. In fact, I think this trade signals (not that it wasn't all but guaranteed) that Roman Hamrlik will not be back in a Flames uniform next season. I wonder if that has anything to do with how bad he played last night. God god he was awful.
 


b) The first line being thrown around is that it was "too expensive" to acquire Stuart.

I was shocked that we were able to pick Stuart up for the price that was paid. Its almost like the Bruins didn't auction Stuart enough and didn't hold on for the best deal. Similar thing to the Thornton trade, just not as lopsided.

With the Oiler's group of young, talented forwards, I thought that he was going up northe for sure. I guess that leaves Brewer or Pitkanen which would be a better pickup IMO.
 


All this Pitkanen talk doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I know why the Oilers want him...but why the hell would Philly deal him?
 


I don't know subv - all the word is he wants to go to California - might mean nothing but ...

I'd prefer Brewer or Phillips for that matter myself.
 


metrognome - agreed unless its one of those needs a change of scenery deals - to me dealing him would be stupid but hey, its the Flyers. Why pick up Zhitnik and Mike York?
 


Its almost like the Bruins didn't auction Stuart enough and didn't hold on for the best deal. Similar thing to the Thornton trade, just not as lopsided.

I think it can most failry be stated that the Bruins don't know how to get fair value for their players, and I'm thinking it may also be reasonably deduced that they may not know how to get them to produce effectively...

Or in other words, and I'm sure that Bruins fans would likely agree with me here, the front office has to go in Btown...

I wonder what they would want in return for Chara or Savard...
 


I mean, I know why the Oilers want him...but why the hell would Philly deal him?

Reports out of Philly earlier this year were that the Flyers were super frustrated with him, and weren't sure if he could make the leap.

Furthermore, you know how many games they've won, right? Losing breeds chaos and bad decisions.
 


"Losing breeds chaos and bad decisions"

I can attest to this - no truer words were ever spoken.

I lost a quarter the other day and was so panic stricken that I fired back a mickey of anise and then made sweet love to my neighbour and my neighbour's wife.

Chaos indeed.
 


I can't imagine that the word "expensive" pertained to value of players going back to Bos because what did Cgy really give up? Ference is useful for sure but Kobesew is back to being a suspect. I can't imagine it pertains to money either unless the Oilers are totally on the fucking cheap altogether. I think the Oilers are just out there looking for something for nothing.

An interesting thing about this deal is that I never once heard the Flames were interested in Stuart. It's the rich getting richer though in terms of the Flames already having a very good D. Though let me be the first to mention Sutter's comments about how giving so many min to the Dion/Hammer tandem was hurting the Flames;)

Dennis
 


I lost a quarter the other day and was so panic stricken that I fired back a mickey of anise and then made sweet love to my neighbour and my neighbour's wife.

I think the Green Fairy is the driving force behind my current Peter Forsberg obsession.
 


Its a beauty idea but I'd be a lot more into it if I knew he would play more then four or five games before he was back on the shelf.

Of course if he were healthy he would cost everything you could send Philly's way - Torres, Lupul, Smid, MAP, Schremp etc etc ad nauseum.

I'd be happier with Brewer, Dvorak and health for the concussed and the enflamed pubic man.
 


A late first-round pick for a middling offensive talent like Nagy for 25 games plus playoffs?

Seems high. It seemed high when the deal was for Roloson, and he's certainly worth more than Nagy — especially given his production this season.
 


Well one reason that Edmonton appears to be in no hurry to do a deal, is that they aren't in any hurry. They've already figured with disappointments and injuries it isn't their year and they're going to wait till the deadline for maximum benefit of selling some players. Whether this is a)their true strategy and b)if true in any way workable of course is arguable. Recent history has shown most of the bigger deals happen before the actual deadline, soooo we should be in KLo's wheelhouse soon if not now. I'm interested to see if he travels with the team this upcoming trip or stays home in the warroom.
 

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