Monday, July 03, 2006
Raped
Chris Pronger has been traded. I'm not happy about this, though I blame Pronger for it, not Lowe. All I have seen so far is Lupul coming back, along with prospects and draft picks. Can anyone say Bernie Nichols? Jimmy Carson?
Thoughts?
MATT UPDATE: Sportsnet says the non-roster player is Ladislav Smid; here's his stats from hockeydb.com:
Presumably, Stoll is going to see a lot of PP time on the point.
ANDY UPDATE: Hey, if you are going to rub our faces in shit, could you at least do it in your own post?
ANDY UPDATE: Boy, would I ever love to be a reporter at Pronger's press conference tomorrow. My question(s) would be thus: "Chris, your tactic of fleeing the country and letting your agent leak your trade demand was obviously intended to limit the Oilers leverage and bargaining power. But in your wildest dreams, did you ever imagine that it would drive down your value so much that the Oilers return would barely be more than a bag of pucks? In short, what are your thoughts on fucking over Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, your teammates, and over a million Oilers fans?
Thoughts?
MATT UPDATE: Sportsnet says the non-roster player is Ladislav Smid; here's his stats from hockeydb.com:
Presumably, Stoll is going to see a lot of PP time on the point.
ANDY UPDATE: Hey, if you are going to rub our faces in shit, could you at least do it in your own post?
ANDY UPDATE: Boy, would I ever love to be a reporter at Pronger's press conference tomorrow. My question(s) would be thus: "Chris, your tactic of fleeing the country and letting your agent leak your trade demand was obviously intended to limit the Oilers leverage and bargaining power. But in your wildest dreams, did you ever imagine that it would drive down your value so much that the Oilers return would barely be more than a bag of pucks? In short, what are your thoughts on fucking over Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, your teammates, and over a million Oilers fans?
# posted by andy grabia @ 10:55 am 
Comments:
On the one hand, we now have cap space to take on a big name. On the other...who?
Welcome back to 10th place. We missed you.
and I'll add that I still think the last thing we needed for Pronger was prospects and draft picks let alone conditional draft picks
I am assuming it is Smid coming back. It better be. And Spacek's agent must be ecstatic right now. His player's value went through the roof.
People will be howling tonight. This will not go over well with this city.
>Thoughts?
Something like, "Bwaaaa- hahahahahaha".
"Our defensemen are serviceable" - just keep repeating that over and over.
The non-roster player is Smid, according to Sportsnet. Unless Lowe has a defenseman or two up his UFA sleeve, I don't get it. Then again, seeing all the big tickets being handed out for defensemen, giving a good young one away must have looked like a poor idea for Florida or Chicago.
That's it? How is it that the Oilers can't trade a big name for anything EVER?
Matt,
You got knocked out in the 1st round by a Ducks team without Chris Pronger. We beat them in 5. Just keep repeating that over and over.
Uggg..can we fast forward through the next NHL season? At this point we need Hemsky to morph into Guy Lafleur, Lupul to become vintage Shanahan and Robbie Shremp to truly be the Hockey Jesus in order for this team to make the playoffs.
I posted this on another blog, but I am sorry Oiler fans, it looks like you got fleeced.. can you say Thorton trade? It'll be interesting to see how many picks and who the non-roster player is. You gotta think that Lowe has the line on some free agents otherwise he wouldn't make this deal.
I'm a Flames fan, but I feel for you. I would be crushed to say the least.
>Hey, if you are going to rub our faces in shit, could you at least do it in your own post?
Oh, don't be so sensitive. It's not like I wondered aloud, "Gee, wasn't Dale Durgeon available?"
You know, being accommodating doesn't really work well for us. We could have had Jeremy Roenick for Mark Messier, and instead traded for a truckload of feces. Now, we accommodated a player's wife, and it has bit us in the ass. Isn't the moral of the story to be unaccommodating?
Lowe even said he was going to do what was "best" and not be accomodating but I guess no other team would risk taking on that headache. Tough day in Oiler Land.
A non-sarcastic question, hinted at by Daryl: what kind of assurances did Burke want - or need - that Pronger would feel like staying in Anaheim any longer than he did in Edmonton? Is it possible that this uncertainty reduced Pronger's trade value?
(And I'm not talking about interests declared up front, like "Don't trade me to Calgary": I mean a perceived flakiness, or whatever you want to call it.)
This is April 1st, right? Right?
But not, it's July. The summer heatwave must've addled Lowe's mind. Can we have a do-over?
Pronger = Lupul + $5M cap space.
That equation doesn't look right to me at all. Especially scanning the dregs of the UFA market.
The picks -- once we figure out what they are (or what conditions apply) -- aren't good for much unless they can be traded and turned into a useful asset today, as Jesse suggests.
There is one more problem that I see about our defense. Spacek was good (only when playing with Pronger), Bergeron was good (only when playing with Pronger) Smith had a strong playoff (played with Pronger)... I think without Pronger half of our guys are half what we think they are.
I bet Spacek signs with Anaheim now, hehe.
I like Lupul, I think he is a good pickup, but certainly needed more that Smid to come along with him.
Jesse might be on K Lowe's wavelength (no offense intended, Jesse). Target a team like New Jersey that's tight to the cap and offer tomorrow's promise for today's cap relief. With the slim pickings left amongst UFAs, it seems a more likely scenario than convincing someone to move to Edmonton of their own free will.
The picks -- once we figure out what they are (or what conditions apply)
Anaheim boards say the deal is the following:
Lupul
Smid
ANA's 1st pick 2007
ANA's 2nd pick 2008
Conditional--ANA's 1st pick 2008 if Anaheim makes the finals
You got knocked out in the 1st round by a Ducks team without Chris Pronger. We beat them in 5. Just keep repeating that over and over.
We beat them in five with the flu.
So, is Pronger the new Comrie yet?
Pronger = Lupul + $5M cap space.
That equation doesn't look right to me at all. Especially scanning the dregs of the UFA market.
This is the key. I was looking at the list of free agents. Henrik Tallinder at Buffalo looks extremely enticing. And they have a shitload of people to resign.
From the Duck perspective, this is an absolutely astounding deal. Lupul had a good year (and the 4 goal game), so they're certainly not selling low. Smid? Nothing established. Draft picks? Whatever. The only proven stud in the deal is going their direction, and he plays 30 minutes a game.
From the Oil perspective, not much to write home about:
- a streaky scorer (contrast his first and third rounds with the second).
- a bunch of prospects (one drafted, a few undrafted)
No question, the Oil, the players, and the fans were screwed in all of this. Thanks to Pronger.
Coincidence the trade came down a day before Brutus makes his conference call?...
- Rod
The trade is still bearable if Lowe makes hyperaggressive use of the cap space. But (a) how many defencemen that you'd describe as even B-grade are left in the RFA market, let alone the U? And (b) shouldn't you be pretty goddamn sure a trade is going to work if the only oven-ready component coming back to you is an owner's grandson? Do the words "conflict of interest" ring any bells?
Flip the picks to someone? What GM is gullible enough to believe those picks will be a low enough # to be useful? First round pick only guarantees a pick in the first 30. Now, if those picks came via Chicago...
- Rod
Do you think now, with the extra picks and cap space that Lowe takes a run at an RFA, like say Bowmeister??
Yeah bouwmeester makes way more sense. I can't believe that Lowe is done with all this. They've got lots of salary space.
Bouwmeester's salary last year was $945. Offer him a big raise to pry him away from Florida. What's it going to take? $2? $2.5?
What GM is gullible enough to believe those picks will be a low enough # to be useful?
I dunno - Kevin Lowe maybe?
Given what other defenceman have been getting, Bouwmeester will be asking for more than that. I had a post ready on what the D-men are getting but I pulled it because of this. I think you would have to give him over 3 million. The picks we got back from Anaheim could be used as compensation, I guess, but it would cost us other stuff in addition. If Lowe were to break the seal on RFA's though, he might as well go all out and try and get Ryan Miller, too. I expect that we will see Spacek coming back here at a number that will make us all want to vomit.
I updated it in the post, but I'll say it again here:
Boy, would I ever love to be a reporter at Pronger's press conference tomorrow. My question(s) would be thus: "Chris, your tactic of fleeing the country and letting your agent leak your trade demand was obviously intended to limit the Oilers leverage and bargaining power. But in your wildest dreams, did you ever imagine that it would drive down your value so much that the Oilers return would barely be more than a bag of pucks? In short, what are your thoughts on fucking over Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, your teammates, and over a million Oilers fans?
Fuck it. I'll put the D-man post up now. It will give everyone an idea of what is being spent. Give me a second.
Going after an RFA like Bowmeester is an interesting idea. Keep in mind the Panther have the right to match...so the only way they don't is if the Oil overpay a huge amount. What's the sense in that?
- Rod
Two other things come to mind:
1) They can still TRADE for players, including Bouwmeester.
2) We don't have to spend all of our money this year. I have no idea who is available next year, but we shouldn't all be leaping off of cliffs for short-term gain.
The Oilers site says this:
The Edmonton Oilers have acquired right wing Joffrey Lupul and defenceman Ladislav Smid from the Anaheim Ducks, along with Anaheim’s first round draft choice in the 2007 NHL Entry Draft, a conditional first round draft choice and their second round draft choice in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft in exchange for defenceman Chris Pronger.
There's a good point - i could be in a complete panic cuz we made the finals last year, and now we're not even gonna make the playoffs, but I guess that's not the end of the world. Anyone know of an approximate list of UFA's for next year?
Anyone else getting horny about the thought of Lowe signing Pitkanen? I know it's a huge stretch, but it excites me because:
a) Pitkanen is a fantastic player
b) Philly is close to the cap
c) I hate Bobby Clarke
d) I have little qualms about poaching players from Clarke and Ed Snider. They have signed players to ridiculous contracts for years, and led to a preposterous escalation of NHL salaries. It would be poetic justice to see the Edmonton Oilers steal a player from them.
Ward has signed with the Rangers. So one less UFA d-man is available.
Where the hell did everyone go?
I like how the URL for this thread is raped_03. Is this the third time that headline's been used here?
Any Oiler fans like the reported offer from the Leafs more than the one Lowe went for? I'm assuming it was pulled off the table after JFJ went for Kubina and Gill.
I like Markov as a fit in Edmonton, and Pitkanen as well.
It's unfortunately true what Achtung said. What are the chances of the Ducks finishing low in the standings over the next 3-4 years? Lowe will have to make divine picks.
Chissakes, all you guys need now is for Peca to sign in Carolina, and the betrayal will be complete.
I'm baffled what Lowe is thinking. Is this really the best he could do for the Oilers? What happened to waiting and doing the best for the organization? Is Lupul being from Edmonton and related to a team owner at all important in this? Is there something Lowe is trying to defuse before Pronger is interviewed? I don't get it.
At this point we need to sign our own RFAs and then shiv someone else by fighting dirty and taking a hard run at theirs. My preference would be to offer Pitakenan 4 or 4.5 million and then let Bobby Clarke try to find the room to pay him that much. I figure that money is way better spent than it would be on Kubina or half a Hall Gill.
Keenan could probably afford to match on Bouwmeister even if we made the offer.
Alex did a nice job of reframing this bargain in his post on the trade, writing: Would any of us not do an Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, and three draft picks deal?
It almost makes me feel good about it. We just need to erase any memory that Pronger was here for a year.
Creepy. I just included the same thought in my new post, without having seen Abboud's post. I should probably change it now, as I dislike having the same thoughts as him. I will point out that he scoffed at me the other day when I said Pronger could end up in Anaheim. Since the idea didn't originate in his own head while he was masturbating to "Stump The Schwab," he clearly thought it had no value. I love the fact that he was wrong, and Bob MacKenzie was right.
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On the one hand, we now have cap space to take on a big name. On the other...who?
Welcome back to 10th place. We missed you.
# posted by 
: July 03, 2006 11:00 am
: July 03, 2006 11:00 am and I'll add that I still think the last thing we needed for Pronger was prospects and draft picks let alone conditional draft picks
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:02 am
: July 03, 2006 11:02 am I am assuming it is Smid coming back. It better be. And Spacek's agent must be ecstatic right now. His player's value went through the roof.
People will be howling tonight. This will not go over well with this city.
>Thoughts?
Something like, "Bwaaaa- hahahahahaha".
"Our defensemen are serviceable" - just keep repeating that over and over.
The non-roster player is Smid, according to Sportsnet. Unless Lowe has a defenseman or two up his UFA sleeve, I don't get it. Then again, seeing all the big tickets being handed out for defensemen, giving a good young one away must have looked like a poor idea for Florida or Chicago.
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:05 am
: July 03, 2006 11:05 am That's it? How is it that the Oilers can't trade a big name for anything EVER?
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:06 am
: July 03, 2006 11:06 am Matt,
You got knocked out in the 1st round by a Ducks team without Chris Pronger. We beat them in 5. Just keep repeating that over and over.
Uggg..can we fast forward through the next NHL season? At this point we need Hemsky to morph into Guy Lafleur, Lupul to become vintage Shanahan and Robbie Shremp to truly be the Hockey Jesus in order for this team to make the playoffs.
I posted this on another blog, but I am sorry Oiler fans, it looks like you got fleeced.. can you say Thorton trade? It'll be interesting to see how many picks and who the non-roster player is. You gotta think that Lowe has the line on some free agents otherwise he wouldn't make this deal.
I'm a Flames fan, but I feel for you. I would be crushed to say the least.
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:16 am
: July 03, 2006 11:16 am >Hey, if you are going to rub our faces in shit, could you at least do it in your own post?
Oh, don't be so sensitive. It's not like I wondered aloud, "Gee, wasn't Dale Durgeon available?"
You know, being accommodating doesn't really work well for us. We could have had Jeremy Roenick for Mark Messier, and instead traded for a truckload of feces. Now, we accommodated a player's wife, and it has bit us in the ass. Isn't the moral of the story to be unaccommodating?
Lowe even said he was going to do what was "best" and not be accomodating but I guess no other team would risk taking on that headache. Tough day in Oiler Land.
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:24 am
: July 03, 2006 11:24 am A non-sarcastic question, hinted at by Daryl: what kind of assurances did Burke want - or need - that Pronger would feel like staying in Anaheim any longer than he did in Edmonton? Is it possible that this uncertainty reduced Pronger's trade value?
(And I'm not talking about interests declared up front, like "Don't trade me to Calgary": I mean a perceived flakiness, or whatever you want to call it.)
This is April 1st, right? Right?
But not, it's July. The summer heatwave must've addled Lowe's mind. Can we have a do-over?
Pronger = Lupul + $5M cap space.
That equation doesn't look right to me at all. Especially scanning the dregs of the UFA market.
The picks -- once we figure out what they are (or what conditions apply) -- aren't good for much unless they can be traded and turned into a useful asset today, as Jesse suggests.
There is one more problem that I see about our defense. Spacek was good (only when playing with Pronger), Bergeron was good (only when playing with Pronger) Smith had a strong playoff (played with Pronger)... I think without Pronger half of our guys are half what we think they are.
I bet Spacek signs with Anaheim now, hehe.
I like Lupul, I think he is a good pickup, but certainly needed more that Smid to come along with him.
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:41 am
: July 03, 2006 11:41 am Jesse might be on K Lowe's wavelength (no offense intended, Jesse). Target a team like New Jersey that's tight to the cap and offer tomorrow's promise for today's cap relief. With the slim pickings left amongst UFAs, it seems a more likely scenario than convincing someone to move to Edmonton of their own free will.
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:43 am
: July 03, 2006 11:43 am The picks -- once we figure out what they are (or what conditions apply)
Anaheim boards say the deal is the following:
Lupul
Smid
ANA's 1st pick 2007
ANA's 2nd pick 2008
Conditional--ANA's 1st pick 2008 if Anaheim makes the finals
You got knocked out in the 1st round by a Ducks team without Chris Pronger. We beat them in 5. Just keep repeating that over and over.
We beat them in five with the flu.
So, is Pronger the new Comrie yet?
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:52 am
: July 03, 2006 11:52 am Pronger = Lupul + $5M cap space.
That equation doesn't look right to me at all. Especially scanning the dregs of the UFA market.
This is the key. I was looking at the list of free agents. Henrik Tallinder at Buffalo looks extremely enticing. And they have a shitload of people to resign.
From the Duck perspective, this is an absolutely astounding deal. Lupul had a good year (and the 4 goal game), so they're certainly not selling low. Smid? Nothing established. Draft picks? Whatever. The only proven stud in the deal is going their direction, and he plays 30 minutes a game.
From the Oil perspective, not much to write home about:
- a streaky scorer (contrast his first and third rounds with the second).
- a bunch of prospects (one drafted, a few undrafted)
No question, the Oil, the players, and the fans were screwed in all of this. Thanks to Pronger.
Coincidence the trade came down a day before Brutus makes his conference call?...
- Rod
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:56 am
: July 03, 2006 11:56 am The trade is still bearable if Lowe makes hyperaggressive use of the cap space. But (a) how many defencemen that you'd describe as even B-grade are left in the RFA market, let alone the U? And (b) shouldn't you be pretty goddamn sure a trade is going to work if the only oven-ready component coming back to you is an owner's grandson? Do the words "conflict of interest" ring any bells?
# posted by : July 03, 2006 11:57 am
: July 03, 2006 11:57 am Flip the picks to someone? What GM is gullible enough to believe those picks will be a low enough # to be useful? First round pick only guarantees a pick in the first 30. Now, if those picks came via Chicago...
- Rod
# posted by : July 03, 2006 12:00 pm
: July 03, 2006 12:00 pm Do you think now, with the extra picks and cap space that Lowe takes a run at an RFA, like say Bowmeister??
Yeah bouwmeester makes way more sense. I can't believe that Lowe is done with all this. They've got lots of salary space.
Bouwmeester's salary last year was $945. Offer him a big raise to pry him away from Florida. What's it going to take? $2? $2.5?
What GM is gullible enough to believe those picks will be a low enough # to be useful?
I dunno - Kevin Lowe maybe?
# posted by : July 03, 2006 12:02 pm
: July 03, 2006 12:02 pm Given what other defenceman have been getting, Bouwmeester will be asking for more than that. I had a post ready on what the D-men are getting but I pulled it because of this. I think you would have to give him over 3 million. The picks we got back from Anaheim could be used as compensation, I guess, but it would cost us other stuff in addition. If Lowe were to break the seal on RFA's though, he might as well go all out and try and get Ryan Miller, too. I expect that we will see Spacek coming back here at a number that will make us all want to vomit.
I updated it in the post, but I'll say it again here:
Boy, would I ever love to be a reporter at Pronger's press conference tomorrow. My question(s) would be thus: "Chris, your tactic of fleeing the country and letting your agent leak your trade demand was obviously intended to limit the Oilers leverage and bargaining power. But in your wildest dreams, did you ever imagine that it would drive down your value so much that the Oilers return would barely be more than a bag of pucks? In short, what are your thoughts on fucking over Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, your teammates, and over a million Oilers fans?
Fuck it. I'll put the D-man post up now. It will give everyone an idea of what is being spent. Give me a second.
Going after an RFA like Bowmeester is an interesting idea. Keep in mind the Panther have the right to match...so the only way they don't is if the Oil overpay a huge amount. What's the sense in that?
- Rod
# posted by : July 03, 2006 12:15 pm
: July 03, 2006 12:15 pm Two other things come to mind:
1) They can still TRADE for players, including Bouwmeester.
2) We don't have to spend all of our money this year. I have no idea who is available next year, but we shouldn't all be leaping off of cliffs for short-term gain.
The Oilers site says this:
The Edmonton Oilers have acquired right wing Joffrey Lupul and defenceman Ladislav Smid from the Anaheim Ducks, along with Anaheim’s first round draft choice in the 2007 NHL Entry Draft, a conditional first round draft choice and their second round draft choice in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft in exchange for defenceman Chris Pronger.
There's a good point - i could be in a complete panic cuz we made the finals last year, and now we're not even gonna make the playoffs, but I guess that's not the end of the world. Anyone know of an approximate list of UFA's for next year?
# posted by : July 03, 2006 12:31 pm
: July 03, 2006 12:31 pm Anyone else getting horny about the thought of Lowe signing Pitkanen? I know it's a huge stretch, but it excites me because:
a) Pitkanen is a fantastic player
b) Philly is close to the cap
c) I hate Bobby Clarke
d) I have little qualms about poaching players from Clarke and Ed Snider. They have signed players to ridiculous contracts for years, and led to a preposterous escalation of NHL salaries. It would be poetic justice to see the Edmonton Oilers steal a player from them.
Ward has signed with the Rangers. So one less UFA d-man is available.
Where the hell did everyone go?
I like how the URL for this thread is raped_03. Is this the third time that headline's been used here?
Any Oiler fans like the reported offer from the Leafs more than the one Lowe went for? I'm assuming it was pulled off the table after JFJ went for Kubina and Gill.
I like Markov as a fit in Edmonton, and Pitkanen as well.
It's unfortunately true what Achtung said. What are the chances of the Ducks finishing low in the standings over the next 3-4 years? Lowe will have to make divine picks.
Chissakes, all you guys need now is for Peca to sign in Carolina, and the betrayal will be complete.
# posted by : July 03, 2006 2:43 pm
: July 03, 2006 2:43 pm I'm baffled what Lowe is thinking. Is this really the best he could do for the Oilers? What happened to waiting and doing the best for the organization? Is Lupul being from Edmonton and related to a team owner at all important in this? Is there something Lowe is trying to defuse before Pronger is interviewed? I don't get it.
# posted by : July 03, 2006 5:43 pm
: July 03, 2006 5:43 pm At this point we need to sign our own RFAs and then shiv someone else by fighting dirty and taking a hard run at theirs. My preference would be to offer Pitakenan 4 or 4.5 million and then let Bobby Clarke try to find the room to pay him that much. I figure that money is way better spent than it would be on Kubina or half a Hall Gill.
Keenan could probably afford to match on Bouwmeister even if we made the offer.
Alex did a nice job of reframing this bargain in his post on the trade, writing: Would any of us not do an Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, and three draft picks deal?
It almost makes me feel good about it. We just need to erase any memory that Pronger was here for a year.
Creepy. I just included the same thought in my new post, without having seen Abboud's post. I should probably change it now, as I dislike having the same thoughts as him. I will point out that he scoffed at me the other day when I said Pronger could end up in Anaheim. Since the idea didn't originate in his own head while he was masturbating to "Stump The Schwab," he clearly thought it had no value. I love the fact that he was wrong, and Bob MacKenzie was right.
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